Nah For Real For Real: A Reasonable Conversation With ItsTheReal
It’s not a complete ‘Waste of Time’
In the world of Hip-Hop journalism, there are certain names and brands that even the most casual fan will know: eskay, Elliott Wilson, 2DopeBoyz, John Gotty & The Smoking Section are just a few that most will recognize. There’s another name that fits on that list as well and that’s ItsTheReal.
In this edition of A Reasonable Conversation, I had a chance to catch up with Jeff and Eric and talk about their journey as journalists, how they’ve dealt with rejection, what it’s like to have over 300 podcasts and so much more.
Before we jump into the interview, Jeff and Eric wanted to introduce themselves like only they can. Our conversation has been lightly edited and condensed.
DeLa: Before we get into things, can you guys introduce yourselves real quick?
Eric: It’s Eric aka Piano Movers aka Pull Up with the Strap. Eric aka Canada Goose aka Just Touched Down. Eric aka Sealy Posturepedic aka Finesse King.
Jeff: It’s Jeff aka Stuck Inside aka Richard Gere’s Gerbil. Jeff aka What the Street’s Been Waiting On aka The Light. Jeff aka Mother Fucker aka Mike Pence.
Let’s start things out kind of easy here: for those that aren’t familiar with you guys, tell us a bit about who you are.
Jeff: I’m Jeff, that’s Eric. The two of us are a lot of things. Brothers, mostly, but for the past five years, we’ve been doing a podcast where some of our favorite people stop by our apartment and go over the arc of their life. We also do a series called 2 Jews and 2 Black Dudes Review the Movies, with The LOX. And there’s a lot more stuff we’ve been lucky to do on our own, from sketches at the birth of YouTube to music and selling a TV show.
Eric: We get recognized for our work quite a bunch, which is always fun — on the streets of Miami, by an NYC subway conductor at 3 a.m., at a store up in Vancouver. The craziest, though, are the scores of people who know us from hosting a Charles Hamilton mixtape back in 2008.
Where did the name ItsTheReal come from exactly?
Eric: We were initially The Real, but the domain name thereal.com was taken, so we bought itsthereal.com, thinking it was a fun play off the Mobb Deep x Lil Kim collaboration “Quiet Storm.” More and more, people called us ItsTheReal, and while there are a million things called The Real, there’s only one ItsTheReal.
I remember finding out about you guys back in 2007 from a sketch that 2DopeBoyz posted. The story goes that you guys decided to essentially say fuck it and release your content after pitching a show to various networks with no luck. What was that time like? Deciding to go the “get it yourself” route? Especially when the “blog era” as it would come to be known hadn’t quite taken off yet.
Jeff: I honestly don’t think we questioned it at all. We were young — I was 22 and had just graduated college; both of us were still living at home. I just remember AOL had asked us to deliver three videos to them in two weeks, sort-of as a pilot. And we gave them like, fourteen. We were so young and hungry.
Eric: I always wanted to turn my avocation into my vocation, and Jeff nor I would ever let a no get in our way. We had TV-level ideas but no funding, distribution, or audience, so we went about building it all ourselves. We treated each day as a professional operation, adhering to self-made deadlines and stressing consistency and quality, all from our parents’ house.
The first video we did was Deconstructing Biggie, where we took the Biggie line, “You’re mad ’cause my style you’re admiring; don’t be mad, UPS is hiring,” and looked at it from the UPS drivers’ perspective, who hated it, and the DHL and FedEx drivers, who thought it was the best thing in the world. That video went viral, and the most important key was to follow it up with something the next week. And then the week after. And on and on. And soon enough, we established ourselves as unique outsiders with an insider’s voice.
You guys did the sketches for about three years and then ended up at MTV for a brief bit. How’d that come about?
Jeff: We stopped doing the sketches because we couldn’t sustain it. I think we burnt ourselves out. We’d carved out a lane, but there were times where it felt that the lane didn’t matter anymore. We were basing our videos off of weekly news cycle, and then it kept speeding up. Things that happened on Thursday were forgotten by Monday when we posted our videos. Then by Saturday. Then by Friday. Once Twitter and Instagram and Vine came around, the cycle from news to joke to old news to old joke had sped up to the point that we just felt like it was untenable.
Eric: Jeff had a co-worker from his days at HBO who’d gone on to a creative position at MTV.com, and he asked us if we’d be open to doing red carpet interviews. We initially passed on the opportunity, for we weren’t journalists. But after they agreed to let us shape the interviews in our voice, we committed to the gig. It was a valuable time for us because it allowed us to show another side to our talents, gave us a big platform to perform on, introduced us to lots of important artists, and brought us to a bunch of new cities. All of those things would be essential in building a bigger and better ItsTheReal brand, meant to last.
We had TV-level ideas but no funding, distribution, or audience, so we went about building it all ourselves. We treated each day as a professional operation, adhering to self-made deadlines and stressing consistency and quality, all from our parents’ house.
I remember you guys telling a story about having a meeting at BET and them not knowing who you guys were and being dismissive. What kind of impact did that have on you two?
Jeff: Yea, that was nuts. We were asked to go into this meeting to bring fresh ideas, and then this executive asked us to justify our existence. Eric started explaining how he’d loved hip-hop since he was super-young when he’d been listening to Arrested Development. She said, “I love that show.” I do too! But…that’s not what we were talking about. So, it was a lot of misdirected emotion on her part. Like, she felt like she needed to take a stand when we were probably on the same side.
Eric: The funny thing was that all the young adults moving around the office knew us; the establishment didn’t. We’re the type of guys who take that energy and pour it right back into the work: you don’t know us? Well, we have to work harder to get on your radar, then. Or at least stick around long enough for those young adults who loved us elevate to a position of power!
Let’s switch gears a bit and talk about the podcast: 300 episodes deep is one hell of an achievement. What made yall want to start the podcast? Did you ever see yourselves getting to this many episodes?
Jeff: We sold a TV show in 2015 and — in the eight months it took to get the contracts ironed out — our agent at the time was like, “You should start a podcast, to keep your name out there weekly.” And we weren’t into it. We had done a podcast in 2010, which was a lot of work for little results, and we felt like we didn’t want to re-live the past. So, it’s crazy that 1.) we agreed to do it, and 2.) that we’ve done so many episodes, ha. The past five years, we’ve done 12 Days of Podcasts at the end of the year, a gift to our listeners when all other content is dried up. We thought that was a ton of work, a ton of people to talk to. Then, when COVID hit, we started doing Quarantine Radio every day — and it shows how little work we used to think was a lot.
Also, where did the name, A Waste of Time, originate? It’s genius in a way that shows you guys aren’t taking yourselves too seriously, yet the product indicates that you guys are fans and students of the culture and craft and respect it.
Eric: I had the name for several years, just as a funny idea — could have been for a TV show, a web series, whatever — and we’d had a manager way back when who hated the name. Never thought it’d work; part of this was to show her.
Jeff: And with Quarantine Radio, Eric thought of that on a whim, and two days later, we started calling three people a day, every day. We were getting some traction with it and then eight days into it, I woke up at 2 am and saw Tory Lanez tweeting about Quarantine Radio in all caps. I was like, whoa. I couldn’t fall back asleep. I was too excited; I couldn’t believe he liked our small little show! And then very quickly I realized he wasn’t talking about us. It was total whiplash.
This could just be how I see things, but were you guys aware that recording the podcast in your Upper West Side home would create a more relaxed environment for your guests and thus lead to a better interview?
Eric: Let’s be clear: the most important reason we had for doing the podcast from our apartment was the non-existent commute. A nice side-effect was the atmosphere for the guests [laughs]. But yes, we did recognize that it allowed for less-stale, less-sterile, and less-typical conversation. The downside though: guests are so comfortable that they end up staying for hours afterward, which is great and all, but we’re starving and kind of just wanna watch YouTube, whenever you guys are ready to leave. Thanks.
We completely invest ourselves in the conversation — no notes, no prepared questions — and allow the journey to dictate where the episode goes
In a way, I’ve modeled my interviews after how you guys do yours. They feel less like an interview where it’s Question A followed by Question B and so forth. Do you guys attribute your ability to have natural flowing conversations to the years of doing sketch comedy or something else?
Eric: A huge part is us being brothers; we have a shorthand, a similar, and singular sense of humor. We also both completely invest ourselves in the conversation — no notes, no prepared questions — and allow the journey to dictate where the episode goes.
Jeff: I think it’s just that we’re good listeners. I don’t know where you learn that — probably our parents? Also, I think the pressure of inviting people over to our apartment with the idea of creating news would make for lousy conversation.
This next question is a segue to where I want this convo to go when you see “Amber Rose on top. Rick Ross in your bikini bottom” what comes to mind?
Jeff: It’s a very vivid picture. I think I’ve painted.
Eric: That’s one of Jeff’s lines from our song “Girls with the Dirty Souths,” featuring Bun B, a song dedicated to a woman’s right to choose… her shaving options. Anyway, it makes me think of how instrumental Bun has been to every step in our career by always being a big supporter of our art. Bun was the first artist to ask to be in one of our sketches. He was the first to jump on a song of ours. He was early in podcasting with us, he took part in our first live show, and even was an early contributor to our Patreon.
What made you guys decide to put out a rap album? By the point that Urbane Outfitters dropped, you guys had established yourself as respectable podcast hosts and some of the best in the rap journalism game. Why do something else?
Jeff: We never wanted to get boxed into doing just one thing. It was always, let’s do something fun. Some of our sketches had us rapping, like when we took Kanye’s side against Taylor in the months after the VMAs thing. Some people at Atlantic Records were like, “You should do more of this.” Kanye’s camp liked it. So it wasn’t the hugest leap.
Eric: We’d been rapping since early high school when we were making heavily-localized mixtapes with music and skits that made our friends laugh and sing along to. Urbane Outfitters — and later, Teddy Bear Fresh — was an extension of our storytelling: the same creativity that goes into the AKAs, the same humor behind our sketches, the same knowledge, and respect that we’ve built through the years, makes up the music. We thought we had something to add to the conversation, and we love the art, so we decided to spread our wings once again.
I’ve seen where people compared what you were doing with your raps to The Lonely Island. I believe you guys have made a mention or two about how you’re not Lonely Island. Does that get annoying?
Eric: We love those guys and think they’re geniuses, and only sing their praises — Lonely Island’s most recent project about the Bash Brothers was phenomenal. We do something completely different and figure we just get the comparisons cause we’re also White, funny, talented, and a group. There are less-flattering and lazier comparisons out there, and we’re happy to keep our name out of those same sentences.
Jeff: I was about to name-check some lazier comparisons, just to show the breadth. Because it’s crazy how we’ve been told we’re not this long list of these people — and yet, that’s very much the whole point.
Like I mentioned earlier, you guys have been at this for twelve years. During those twelve years, you’ve gone from sketches to podcasts to rap albums to merchandise to even releasing a book. What keeps you guys motivated to keep working at such a high level?
Eric: Still working to make our avocation our vocation!
Jeff: I mean, I get bored just like anyone else. I want to have fun, I want to put out projects that matter. I think we’re still working toward something truly great.
There have been a million ups and downs — we sold a TV show, but it didn’t get made. One sketch video did a ton of views, but another didn’t. We landed a major guest of the podcast, but another one dropped out, etc. — but if you pull the frame back and look at the graph of our career, you can see that we started from nothing and have made it to something. Whatever mountain we’ve climbed is one of many, and there’s always another in front of you, so we stay ready for the next step!
You guys recently tweeted that just because you make it look easy that people think the road is easy. I know we briefly touched on some of the setbacks that you guys have had, but can you go into detail about the path that two Jews (I can say that right?) took to get to the top of the mountain?
Jeff: I just want to say that yes, it’s been hard but also, cosmically, it’s been fairly easy and very fun. Let’s be clear about that. We’ve created opportunities that people would kill for. We have a million great stories about the things we’ve created, and we’re happy to be where we are. To say anything else would make it seem like we’re complaining or unhappy about our station in life.
Eric: The biggest fight through twelve years has been to keep things going without major backing and in the face of those who didn’t see the vision because we were ahead of our time. We believe in our work and that it’ll pay off down the road, so we’ve put everything into it: money, time and energy. There have been a million ups and downs — we sold a TV show, but it didn’t get made. One sketch video did a ton of views, but another didn’t. We landed a major guest of the podcast, but another one dropped out, etc. — but if you pull the frame back and look at the graph of our career, you can see that we started from nothing and have made it to something. Whatever mountain we’ve climbed is one of many, and there’s always another in front of you, so we stay ready for the next step!
Going back to the podcast, you guys have done over 300 episodes. If I gave out a random number, could you recall the guest off the top of your head? Say episode 17 or episode 231?
Jeff: Man, I don’t remember anything from anything [laughs]. Do you think I’m like A Beautiful Mind? Add that to the long list of comparisons of people I’m not.
Eric: Regardless of whether I can or not, this sounds like some Al Bundy-high-school-football-stats thing, so I’m going to say no.
You guys have been yourselves from day one. Was there ever a point where you guys thought about changing who you are or picking up a gimmick to try to breakthrough?
Jeff: I wanted to do a reggaetón album. But alas.
Eric: Never. Not worth it. Even when there was the thought of money behind it, we knew that selling out always costs something.
Lastly, what’s the secret to a well maintained Jewfro? Nah, for real for real I want to know.
Jeff: During this quarantine, I was thinking about how happy I am that I have a lot of hair, but man, is it going to be tough to maintain. So, a lot of my anxiety about being inside has been what to do with it. I just don’t want to do a Jewfro. Maybe a rat tail. I want to come out of this whole thing looking super brolic and with a killer rat tail.
Eric: Ha. I don’t think I have a Jewfro. Screech from Saved By the Bell has one. Art Garfunkel has one. Dudes from the ’70s have them. I associate Jew fros as picked-out and standing up; my curls are relaxed and more wavy, word to Max B. I do go to a curl-specific barber in NYC, I use a good amount of conditioner, a little gel, let it air dry and then pat it a bit to give it some body.
If you’re looking for more of ItsTheReal, it can all be found here.
Jacob DeLawrence is a wizard with words. Follow him on Twitter, @_jdela, and be sure to check out more entries in the “A Reasonable Conversation” series.
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