‘Captain America: The Winter Soldier’ Asks What’s The Difference Between Good Guys And Bad Guys
If ‘The Manchurian Candidate’ and ‘All the President’s Men’ had a baby.
Welcome, true believers! Still Crew is getting you prepped for “Avengers: Infinity War” with our month-long coverage of everything Marvel Cinematic Universe. Every day, you get new content connected in some shape, form, or fashion related to the MCU to keep you occupied until the big event on April 27. Read more about the month right here.
Imagine for a moment or two if immediately after Hitler’s death, Nazis infiltrated the highest levels of the U.S. government in order to carryout his mission. But rather than announce their plans to the world with goose stepping and terrible mustaches, they smartened up and got subtle.
They’d implement, instruct, and inform every chaotic event that involved the U.S. post-World War II, all in the name of indoctrination. They’d use fear as a weapon, relying on the fact human beings can be a just a tad erratic. After every event, like 9/11, citizens would willfully hand over their personal information freedom in the name of protection, effectively making the Nazis the most powerful group in the history of society, whether modern or back when people wore loin cloths. They’d know everything about us, use that information to create a Facist society, and manipulate governments around the world all in the name of consolidating power and doing whatever it is they wanted to do, all in the name of continuing Hitler’s reign of terror.
For those of you who haven’t seen it, that’s essentially main engine powering Captain America: The Winter Soldier. Captain America finds out Hydra, the Marvel equivalent to the Nazis, infiltrated S.H.I.E.L.D. decades ago and have been operating in plain sight. They control every aspect of the government organization and have decided to use their illegal surveillance programs to construct weapons that eliminate targets before they can become dangerous. And by “dangerous,” they mean a threat to their own agenda.
There, now the three or four of you who haven’t seen this movie are now caught up and can see why it goes beyond the typical “comic book movie” trappings. Phase 2 of the MCU gets political — we’ve said that before — but this movie is the pinnacle of that political streak. The Winter Soldier puts Cap in a couple impossible situations while turning his world upside down, forcing him to question his alliances and things he believed to be true. But he never questions himself and rather than “see the world as it is.” He would much rather implant his views on how the world should be, deciding that even compromising a little means he’s unfit to be the guy carrying that incredibly heavy shield.
There’s a running theme of “choice” in every Captain America flick and our rights as citizens to choose what’s best for us. The choices made in this movie completely altered the MCU it’s a good bet Infinity War shows us more consequences of those decisions.
The Winter Soldier is thematically rich and rewarding on multiple views, and who knew it would come from two guys known for directing episodes of Community and Arrested Development? The Russo Brothers crafted not only one of the best Marvel flicks, but one of the best comic book flicks of all time and, if not for something very recent, would be considered the best flick in Marvel’s 10 years.
But enough pontificating. Marcus Benjamin, G. Hylton, and Raj Anand strap on their Captain America shields, fall in love with Black Widow, and wonder how does a black man’s SUV get shot up in broad daylight in Washington, D.C. and not make the nightly news.
Garfield: Finally, we’re discussing the best movie in the MCU. Winter Soldier could’ve very well been named Captain America: The Rogers Supremacy. This movie is probably the least “comic” of the comic book movies, introducing themes like a governmental surveillance state, whether freedom is truly freedom, and how rogue spies can infiltrate America to use it for its own nefarious purposes.
Raj: This movie was absolutely fantastic. I didn’t think I’d like a Marvel flick more than I loved the first Iron Man. Winter Soldier is toe-to-toe with that, if not better. I think the only thing I disagree with you on is what the movie should’ve been named, and that’s Captain America: The Manchurian Candidate.
Garfield: I’d also like to mention Winter Soldier probably has at least five of the top ten action sequences in the entire MCU. The first 20 minutes of the movie is one long fight sequence with multiple parts: including a kick-ass version of Black Widow. Then you have Nick Fury car chase scene, the first time Cap and Winter Soldier fight on the highway and, of course, the “Captain America beats the shit out of everyone on a cramped elevator” scene. Winter Soldier is the gold standard of the entire series. I wish it would’ve taken the subsequent movies in this direction instead of following the Guardians of the Galaxy blueprint we saw in movies like Ragnarok.
Marcus: We can disagree on it being the gold standard but I’m not here to disparage the movie at all. Its themes are resonant and the action is all dope. I watched it again the other day and the Nick Fury car chase may be one of my favorite scenes in any Marvel movie period, action or otherwise. We talked about Black Widow earlier and this movie does the best job at giving her a character arc and some really good moments. The humor she shows while she and Steve are deciphering clues - “Shall we play a game,” firmly making her choice at the end, and my favorite: “I only act like I know everything, Rogers.” I swear I live my life by that phrase. We get these moments of vulnerability from her and she softens as a character while Steve hardens. It’s nice storytelling and puts them both in different positions when the movie ends.
How did the Bucky reveal play for you both?
Raj: I loved it. I’m a sucker for conspiracy theories, anti-heroes, and tragedy, so the Bucky reveal pushed my buttons perfectly.
Garfield: I watched Civil War before Winter Soldier so, I already knew the Winter Soldier was Bucky. Rather than give me the shock and awe I’m sure it gave everyone else, what it did was lend an obvious context to what I saw in Civil War. I do feel like it added to the depth of Captain America’s character though.
We talked about The First Avenger and how Cap always tried to do the right thing. In Winter Soldier, he said that he liked it better when he knew who the bad guys were because he knew who he was supposed to be fighting. Now, we have a situation where there’s a bad guy that Cap knows he’s supposed to be fighting. That bad guy is his best friend. It makes it a little harder for Cap to take the absolute route.
‘Winter Soldier’ starts to explore what Steve is without war or without clear battle lines drawn.
Marcus: It does complicate his mission. The point he makes about knowing who the bad guys are is a theme all spy movies have hammered home since the end of the Cold War. The first Mission: Impossible, Goldeneye, Skyfall, and a few others I’m sure I’m forgetting all focus on characters dealing with a world where the good guys and bad guys aren’t easily defined and what is the role of a government or a spy in that world. Winter Soldier starts to explore what Steve is without war or without clear battle lines drawn. When you wished other Marvel movies had taken this tone rather than the Guardians tone, I don’t think that would work. This a story and a vibe that could only be drawn from a character like Cap.
Raj: I think they overplay Captain America’s moral compass in the later movies, but it was damn perfect here. As a viewer, you just feel for him. That’s his best goddamn friend from decades ago and he’s doing all these horrible things against his will but they’re horrible regardless. What is someone supposed to do in that situation? You can justify any decision that Captain America makes, and that gray is is one of the things that makes this movie so great.
Marcus: Oh and since I asked, the Bucky thing didn’t hit me hard because I read comics so I knew the twist going in, but it also didn’t hit the people I saw it with since they didn’t see The First Avenger. Like Raj said, these flicks can be enjoyed in a vacuum but they’re better if you know the entire story.
Raj: Being completely honest, I actually had to go back and watch First Avenger to remember who Bucky was because I completely forgot him from the first movie. So I watched — and enjoyed — Winter Soldier, then went back and rewatched First Avenger, and then rewatched — and was blown away by — Winter Soldier — all in the span of about a week.
Actually on that note, a smaller character who became really interesting to me on my second watch was S.H.I.E.L.D./Hydra agent Jasper Sitwell. On the first watch, he was just part of the Hydra conspiracy, but after rewatching the whole series, I managed to connect the dots from his roles in Thor and The Avengers. Like this character was out here playing his role brilliantly and doing stuff for the right side, until he flips in Winter Soldier.
What did you guys think of the Falcon/Captain America relationship?
Garfield: I don’t think anything of it, to be honest. I mean, unless Falcon is about to replace Steve after Thanos breaks Steve in half, I guess it’s fine. Cap needs a buddy and Falcon is perfectly adequate in that role. However, it also makes Falcon little more than “Cap’s buddy.” If he’s going to be a feature in the series, assuming Thaos doesn’t kill HIM too, then I’d like for him to separate himself a bit more in the future.
Marcus: It’s fine. It’s nice for Cap to have a road dog and someone who’s as pure as he is, but outside of a few strokes — him counseling other vets, taste in music, we really don’t get much of Sam. We get more of him in subsequent flicks but here, he just seems like the standard sidekick. Even has that line, “I do what he does, only slower.” So that’s his purpose — support and have Cap’s back.
Raj: Fair enough. There were parts that I liked, that switched up the overall darker tones with some lighter comedy. That jogging scene at the beginning and then of course the “Call it a resume” had me rolling. But yeah, I think you guys are right. At the end of the day, he boils down to the standard sidekick role.
Marcus: There’s nothing wrong with him being the standard sidekick at all, but he does fill another role as far as just being a good dude. The rest of the movie is filled with people you can’t trust or don’t know if you should trust. Sam is straight with Cap and us from jump. And he does get that dope line. “Because that tie looks really expensive and I’d hate to mess it up.” His relationship with Bucky has more depth to it but that’s for later.
With what we know now about Facebook and every other social media platform we willingly give our info to, how do we feel about the idea of S.H.I.E.L.D./Hydra spying on people as a “safety measure”? It’s not the first comic book flick to touch on the subject but it does firmly come down on one side of the argument.
Garfield: I’d be cool with them spying on people if I knew they’d use it to stop white people. They’re not going to do that though. The Parkland shooting went down and the FBI says they couldn’t find him, despite the fact people made multiple reports about dude. He actually signed his first and last name on YouTube on a video about school shootings. It’s like, I’m never on the side of governmental interference to do anything, ever, because all it’s going to end up being is another way for them to fuck with Black/Brown people while letting White people do whatever the fuck they want.
So, in short, S.H.I.E.L.D./Hydra’s safety measure sucks and it was probably just going to be a way for them to create a surveillance state by either killing a bunch of people of color or finding some way to blame all those deaths on some terrorist shit à la Iron Man 3.
Marcus: I can say with a straight face I was not expecting that response at all. But your point, along with current events, does make me look differently at that scene where a bunch of DC cops shoot up Nick Fury’s ride. But in the context of the movie, they were using the machine to monitor “enhanced” individuals, and they dropped names like Steven Strange and Bruce Banner. It takes the pre-crime idea from Minority Report and applies it superheroism or potential superheorism. Should guys like Strange or Banner or even Peter Parker be monitored because of what they may or may not do? It’s an interesting question and the movie says no, even though Civil War argues maybe they should.
Garfield: Glad you brought up the failed Nick Fury assassination attempt. hey tried to carry out on a busy ass DC street during what appeared to be nearly rush hour traffic. f course the police can kill a Black man in the middle of DC without anybody really thinking twice about it. Now when it was time to kill Captain America, it was “we can’t do it here. Not where people can see us.” Granted, killing Captain America is obviously a bigger deal than killing Nick Fury but, since I’m already 600 yards into conspiracy, I might as well run another 100.
So, in short, S.H.I.E.L.D./Hydra’s safety measure sucks and it was probably just going to be a way for them to create a surveillance state by either killing a bunch of people of color or finding some way to blame all those deaths on some terrorist shit, a la Iron Man 3.
As for your question about monitoring, I mean, you’ve seen Minority Report, right? You saw how that ended, right? Sitwell got pulled from a car and throw into a traffic on the opposite side of the median for what I’m assuming is because SHIELDRA, aka SHIELD and Hydra, presumably knew he would be the one to snitch. They’re obviously not always going to get it right, but always getting it right isn’t really the goal. They want people to give up all freedoms and a total lockdown of individual choice. SHEILDRA scraping off a few hundred thousand of the people they shouldn’t isn’t going to really interfere with their goals.
I don’t think Civil War’s angle was “we need to monitor them.” It was “they need to abide by these rules or retire.” Which…isn’t the same thing? I have no idea if it is.
Marcus: It’s not the same thing but it does run the line of keeping heroes in check. Fury thought it was keeping them in check when really it was Hydra trying to keep tabs to screw them in the end and yeah, give up rights and freedoms all in the name of safety. It’s the Patriot Act; just a lot more fun to watch.
And as a black man in DC, I can tell you both it would only be a big deal based on the part of the city you’re in. What happened to Fury wouldn’t even be possible on the streets because they’re way too narrow downtown. But we didn’t come here for logic.
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